The non-computer people I know don't really think search as gotten worse. The people I know who hate computers the most think it's gotten better... but they are in the minority.

I've always found obscure words powerful in searches. That power has been destroyed. Please don't tell me to put it in quotes or use a different engine... this is a design trend, made worse by "AI" I'm not asking for a solution or work around. I want to know WHY the software I depend on keeps getting worse.

I really hope that enough people have noticed the degradation that it might matter.

@futurebird At this point no matter what I search for I will mostly get back something that is pushing me toward commerce.

And independent of that I will get something that is polar opposite of what I actually searched for. To top it off, I'll get far too much that isn't even related!

I use DDG the majority of the time, and I use the "lite" version. About 99.999% of the time if I go to the second page of results might as well just be random web pages.

@GeoffWozniak

I really miss finding websites from people that would make me think "whoa I can't believe someone made a whole site about this obscure thing!" The web just presses you back to the same six shopping and social media sites over and over and over. There are still cool things out there... but you won't find them using search!

@futurebird @GeoffWozniak I wonder how hard it would be to make a search that’s just about these kinds of pages.

@mwichary @futurebird I think that Marginalia is trying, at least. How successful they are is a matter of debate.

https://marginalia-search.com/

@mwichary @futurebird @GeoffWozniak Has https://url.town/ already crossed your desks? It’s pretty delightful. (I can recommend bookmarking the /random redirect as well, it’s always a little bit of joy.)

@futurebird
Are you assuming that the purpose of a #search engine is to provide you with links to information?

I’m not sure that’s true. Or not any more.

The purpose of a search engine is to hold your attention long enough to show you #advertisements, and then to direct you onwards towards the thing being advertised.

The promised information is just bait.

@futurebird at the moment I'm testing how SearXNG works for me. I have it locally running in docker right now, but if I can make it better (for me) then current google/ddg I'll put it on a server for friends and family.

@futurebird The degradation of search at Google was a deliberate choice, because they needed to juice search numbers after achieving a monopoly.

They could not organically make more searches happen, because enough of everyone was online and searching.

So, they made search worse so that you had to search more.

This was revealed in the court proceedings in the Google Search monopoly trial, in which Google was convicted (but not punished).

@futurebird The reason search is enshittified is complex but boils down to: because, capitalism.

The web is huge. Scanning and indexing it requires enormous bandwidth and gigantic storage. For better or worse we chose to leave it to the "free" market, so our search tools are provided by advertising corporations (notably google) who use search as a lure, to attract eyeballs to ads.

Of course, google prefers to serve you ads than to service your search requests …

/1

@cstross

Now if I was in charge the Libraries would be funded like the military and the military like libraries (except maybe research... but see the aforementioned now terrifying public and free libraries)

Anyway I think that search should be run by the public library. Just like an alternative to banking and digital payments should be done by the post office.

*banging sound on my door of Credit Card Cartel goons come to get me*

@futurebird @cstross
County library gave me access to two online search engines mid ‘80s. The ERIC (Educational Resources Information Center) and Lockheed-DIALOG. Lockeed was fabulous for Boolean syntax. 1st search=set 1 & count, 2nd=set 2, 3rd was set1 AND, OR, NOT set2. Sorely missed in the decades since.

@futurebird @cstross This *Post office offering bank accounts* is actually a thing in Germany; it's called PostBank and is run by Deutsche Post.

@Sibtodon @futurebird That was a thing in the UK … before the Tories (wearing the flayed skin of Labour, under Tony Blair) privatised the Post Office.

I'm pretty sure that's one of the things Trump's backers will ask for during his third term.

@cstross @Sibtodon

The failing of this whole project has already begun. Our president is crying out "communists! communists!" and too many people are just think "... and?"

We are due for a correction, the question is how to shape it so it is persistent, durable and not co-opted. That will be hard.

The young people give me some hope. There are still people who want to be "public servants" who find glory in that service greater than millions of dollars.

@cstross @Sibtodon

The post office is in the constitution. I know they don't care about that but the post office isn't just notion it's one of the core institutions of this country. It is more legally hallowed and protected than schools or running water. (which raises some question IMO, but let us leave that be)

I do think they will try. But I also think this will be harder to do than they suspect. The depth of the resistance will catch them off guard.

And frankly I think they will fail.

@futurebird @Sibtodon The USPS is indeed in the constitution … and so are presidential term limits: if Trump gets his third term it will mean the constitution is dead (and so is the post office). Silver lining: I don't expect him to live to see November '28.

@cstross @Sibtodon

My grandmother drove a rural postal truck, my dad would ride in the back doing his homework and passing her the packages.

I will get up and fight over the damn post office.

@futurebird @cstross @Sibtodon see also the high-tech fashion of declaring that libraries are obsolete because now you can buy books on the Internet at such reasonable prices!?

@mxchara @cstross @Sibtodon

As if libraries were just collections of objects called books ... and not institutions meant to facilitate answering of questions, access to information and through that self-constructed understanding of The World.

It's like thinking that a school is just a list of facts on a hard drive or printed on paper, or if you like churches that a religious institution is a place that dispenses grape juice and dry crackers.

Or that a hospital is a box of bandages and drugs.

@futurebird out of curiosity, have you tried Kagi with AI-content filtering..??

@futurebird same, I had to relearn when best practice went from "enter a query" to "type a question as a sentence", and now that you can ony get results for the 100 more popular word combinations I have given up entirely

@Tak

"increasing ant diversity in your garden"

Will return advice how how to "get rid of ants in your garden" since that is the most common wanted search result for "ants" and "garden" and all other possibilities are, I guess, bad. The results are so shallow and obvious that I don't see the point of using a search at all.